The Day Deismaar Sank

[morgramen]

Hail!

I have begun reading "The Iron Throne", and am fully conciouss that this
source should be taken with a grain of Khinasi salt. However, the
description of the Battle at Deismaar resembled what I had pictured in
my own mind fairly closely. This has prompted me to question a few
points which I have accepted as 'cannon'.

1) If the Gods essence spread throughout the region following their
destruction, this force would be extend in a radius from 'ground zero'
would it not? As such, it seems to me that the highest concentration of
blooded beings should be in the affective 'blast radius.' Thus, Arduria
should have a high concentration of blood should it not? Conversely,
the Vos should be rather low. (The only presence being the descendent
BL. from those Vos present at the battle).

2) Also, the sinking of the land bridge would have wrought havoc across
the face of Cerilia & Arduria. (Imagine what would happen if California
finally sank) Earthquakes and tidal waves would abound to be sure.
From what I understand, the relative destruction was rather confined to
the land bridge itself. (Unless the surviving warriors at the battle
had REALLY fast horses...)

3) Also, the destruction of the Gods released a wave of force which
decimated the majority of Azrai's Host correct? How did Roele and the
others manage to get far enough away from 'ground zero' to avoid the
destructive effects of this blast, and only receive the 'gift' of the
blood? Roele had turned to give chase before the actual destruction
occurred, but I have a hard time accepting that he could have gotten far
enough away in the given time, to avoid being destroyed as well.

Anyone care to debate "The Day the Gods Died?"....

Keith

- --

"I am your humble knight, and I swear allegiance to the courage and
power in your veins.
So strong it is, it's source must be Luther Pendragon."

The Draftmine (Home of the Brass Boar & other Oddities.)
http://www.angelfire.com/ak/draftmine/

Brenna's Blood Secret PbeM (A Haven's of the Great Pay PBeM.)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dungeon/2239/index.htm

[Tim Nutting]

> 1) If the Gods essence spread throughout the region following their
> destruction, this force would be extend in a radius from 'ground zero'
> would it not?

What I view as a common misconception concerning Diesmaar is that the "blast"
was a physical force governed by the laws of physics and nature as we all know,
don't know, love, and hate them. In reading the core rulebooks one finds that
the bloodlines and the distribution of power was attracted to those most in
line with the gods teaching. What I imagine is this: a massive blast, perhaps
something like a whale sized meteor hits the mountain, and there is massive
devastation, blasting the mountain into a strait, but the explosion is much
different. Like the explosive power of a Staff of Power or a Staff of the
Magi, this power is simply different. A massive wall of fire erupts from the
explosion, spiritual, astral fire that no being may hide from, and bathes every
single combatant at the mountain and within hundreds of miles. Those who are
like one of the gods in at least some moderate respect (no alignment problems
and were devout worhsipers) were protected from the blast by a shield of faith
as their new divine essence took hold. Some were thrown 50 miles or more, yet
lived because of the essences and strange energies flying about. By and large,
those at the battle that did not inherit a bloodline, died.

> 2) Also, the sinking of the land bridge would have wrought havoc across
> the face of Cerilia & Arduria. (Imagine what would happen if California
> finally sank) Earthquakes and tidal waves would abound to be sure.
> From what I understand, the relative destruction was rather confined to
> the land bridge itself. (Unless the surviving warriors at the battle
> had REALLY fast horses...)

See above for the escape. We have no maps of Cerilia before the catalclysm, so
how can we know that massive havoc was not visited upon the locals. I imagine
very few structures survived, and most of what would one day be Imperial City
had to be re-made.

> 3) Also, the destruction of the Gods released a wave of force which
> decimated the majority of Azrai's Host correct? How did Roele and the
> others manage to get far enough away from 'ground zero' to avoid the
> destructive effects of this blast, and only receive the 'gift' of the
> blood? Roele had turned to give chase before the actual destruction
> occurred, but I have a hard time accepting that he could have gotten far
> enough away in the given time, to avoid being destroyed as well.

No belief = death. Strong belief = absorption of power. Notice who went up to
be gods? The greatest champions, the proxies, of the Cerilian Powers.
However, there were far more worhsipers of Azrai at the battle than any other.
How can any dispute that? A gods power in AD&D is linked to the number and
strength of worhsipers. The entirety of the massed armies of Aduria was at the
south flank, and the Vos, Elves, Goblins, Gnolls, and 1/3 of the Andu, Basarji,
Brecht, Masetians and Rjuven. In reading the description of bloodtheft one
finds that the awnshegh found out about usurpation close to the termination fo
the fighting. However, they were eager to experiment on new victims, and thus
a second war followed on the heels of the first. Some did not fight, still to
weak to do aught but sit and die.

> Anyone care to debate "The Day the Gods Died?"....

The debate is joined. :)


Tim Nutting

[Ed Stark]

At 08:57 PM 9/7/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Hail!
>
>snip<
>1) If the Gods essence spread throughout the region following their
>destruction, this force would be extend in a radius from 'ground zero'
>would it not? As such, it seems to me that the highest concentration of
>blooded beings should be in the affective 'blast radius.' Thus, Arduria
>should have a high concentration of blood should it not? Conversely,
>the Vos should be rather low. (The only presence being the descendent
>BL. from those Vos present at the battle).

In the Aduria stuff I was working on, I followed that theory, but with an
important change. When Deismaar blew (I figured), the gods protected their
followers as much as they could--as well as the land they lived in. The
area north of the land bridge is pretty habitable. Lots of blooded people
were made.

South of the land bridge, the gods' protection dropped off sharply only a
few miles inland. After Mieres, the land became something of a wasteland
for a few hundred miles. The "godstuff" was too powerful for mortal lands
to maintain.

Carrie, Rich, and I had talked about there being lots of blooded characters
in the southlands, but the blood distribution being somewhat different
because of this. One theory (which was never published or even finalized
internally) was that there were actually more blooded people in the south
(at least initially) because of this "unshielded" explosion, but fewer
high-numbered bloodlines (because those too close to the explosion were
killed or transformed).

>2) Also, the sinking of the land bridge would have wrought havoc across
>the face of Cerilia & Arduria. (Imagine what would happen if California
>finally sank) Earthquakes and tidal waves would abound to be sure.
>>From what I understand, the relative destruction was rather confined to
>the land bridge itself. (Unless the surviving warriors at the battle
>had REALLY fast horses...)

Oh, yeah; that happened. But I do see the gods' essence shielding and
protecting as many of their followers as possible. I also see the final
battle between Azrai and his major forces and the gods and their champions
occuring in the center of the land bridge with their armies not right up
against it all. The distance and the protection could have protected a lot
of them--but a lot also died. In all honesty, I've always kind of felt that
ANYBODY who survived Deismaar came back blooded--but so few did survive
that it became legendary. Not like all the people who were "at" Woodstock ;-)

This is all my opinion, BTW--nothing official.

>3) Also, the destruction of the Gods released a wave of force which
>decimated the majority of Azrai's Host correct? How did Roele and the
>others manage to get far enough away from 'ground zero' to avoid the
>destructive effects of this blast, and only receive the 'gift' of the
>blood? Roele had turned to give chase before the actual destruction
>occurred, but I have a hard time accepting that he could have gotten far
>enough away in the given time, to avoid being destroyed as well.

See above. I also figure that, even though they were destroyed, the old
gods actually won the last battle--and so were able to kill not only Azrai
but a lot of his followers along the way. Plus, most of the new gods were
enemies of Azrai--these former champions could have protected their
followers and slain their enemies. Only Belinik and Kriesha were left to
stand against them (I can't see Eloele opening siding with Azrai--she's on
the very neutral side of evil ... more sneaky than belligerent).

Again, this is all my un-thought-out opinion. I look forward to reading
other ideas and rebuttals.


Ed Stark
Game Designer, Wizards of the Coast/TSR Division
Asst. Brand Manager
ALTERNITY Team
TSR Website: http://www.tsr.com

[Wrb41977@aol.co]

In a message dated 9/8/98 4:43:25 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
ted@wizards.com writes:

>

A minor little thing you overlooked... Eloele, Laerme, and Cuiraecen are
children of the new gods, born shortly to long after the battle...

[morgramen]

Ed Stark wrote:

> South of the land bridge, the gods' protection dropped off sharply only a
> few miles inland. After Mieres, the land became something of a wasteland
> for a few hundred miles. The "godstuff" was too powerful for mortal lands
> to maintain.

Sooooo, this could result in all sorts of weirdness.... carnivorous plants?
veggie pygmies (I always loved those vegetables!) etc. What is the general
opinion on stuff like 'The Swamps of Sadness" (From 'The Never Ending Story"),
the kind of natural areas/evironments that actually cause various nasty effects
upon those that wander through them... would this type of thing have resulted
from unshielded 'God Stuff', or simply have burnt the land to a crisp?



> Carrie, Rich, and I had talked about there being lots of blooded characters
> in the southlands, but the blood distribution being somewhat different
> because of this. One theory (which was never published or even finalized
> internally) was that there were actually more blooded people in the south
> (at least initially) because of this "unshielded" explosion, but fewer
> high-numbered bloodlines (because those too close to the explosion were
> killed or transformed).

I like this.... lots of low powered guys, and lots of 'transformed' beings....
bring out the awnsheigh I say!



> . The distance and the protection could have protected a lot
> of them--but a lot also died. In all honesty, I've always kind of felt that
> ANYBODY who survived Deismaar came back blooded--but so few did survive
> that it became legendary. Not like all the people who were "at" Woodstock ;-)
>
> This is all my opinion, BTW--nothing official.

I agree -- officially. :)




> See above. I also figure that, even though they were destroyed, the old
> gods actually won the last battle--and so were able to kill not only Azrai
> but a lot of his followers along the way. Plus, most of the new gods were
> enemies of Azrai--these former champions could have protected their
> followers and slain their enemies. Only Belinik and Kriesha were left to
> stand against them (I can't see Eloele opening siding with Azrai--she's on
> the very neutral side of evil ... more sneaky than belligerent).

Would it be possible for the 'new Gods' to have access to their new found power
that quickly though? I would expect a certain amount of 'confusion' and 'shock'
to occur, causing them to 'stagger'. One minute, their mortals battling
alongside the Gods themselves (an event I'm sure would cause a bit of 'mental
instability' in itself) and the next second, they've ascended to the heavens.
Would they be able to realize their full potential and power in such a small time
frame?

I think Belenik & Kriesha would have taken a high road out of there as soon as
they realized what had happened. Why hang around and get beat on before you get
a chance to conglomerate your new found power? I think Kriesha would have
smacked Belenik upside the head & ran for the hills. I se these two as very much
akin to the stupid thug and smart, conniving wicked witch of the west, always
running off in defeat, but swearing to return one day to exact revenge. Eloele
is definitely sneaky IMO, more like a Loki figure rather than a being of pure
evil. (I can easily see her turning into a horse, and then almost forgetting
that she wasn't a horse, and giving birth to an 8 legged steed.) She tends to
ride the fence between the good guys & the bad guys IMO. (Kind of like a super
villain with an annoying sense of morals and conscience.

Anyway, that's the way I see it.

Keith

- --

"I am your humble knight, and I swear allegiance to the courage and power in your
veins.
So strong it is, it's source must be Luther Pendragon."

The Draftmine (Home of the Brass Boar & other Oddities.)
http://www.angelfire.com/ak/draftmine/

Brenna's Blood Secret PbeM (A Haven's of the Great Pay PBeM.)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dungeon/2239/index.htm

[Blastin]

In a message dated 9/8/98 7:43:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ted@wizards.com
writes:

>

well, Eloele was "born" after desimaar, so I don't think that would be a
problem ;)
Blastin