Wish List was Review: TotHW

[JulesMrshn@aol.co]

If I had my suppliment/BR wish list:

1. Shadow world Suppliment (Including Twar Annwen since they are there)
2. Realms of Cerlia (as suggested by olesens@bellatlantic.net)
But I am thinking Boxed set ...would include:
- -All Regents of Cerlia... including heirs,stats and stuff from player's
secrets
- -All Realms detailed... including treasuries (guilds,temples, wiz's included)
- -Maps with Roads, Ley lines, Castles etc....
- -A players primer with short description of the Realms with stuff they would
know (akin to a more detailed version of AoC)
3. New Rules
- -New Battlesystem (I like the freedom of table-top wargaming.... perhaps
explore that or maybe something akin to the old civilwar [american civilwar
for the internationals] boardgames)
- -More details on "fuzzy rules" like trade routes
- -New Rules for Mustering Troops
- -New Trade system (sorry don't like the current one)
4. Areas of the World Suppliment
Details on other places in Cerilia like the Dragon iles and the other
continents with troops and trade info
5. Adventures adventures Adventuers (best stated by Tim Nutting in his post)
6. A Bigger selection of normal spells form Priests and Magicians, plus
Cerilian kits for non-regents... (Regents get enough).
7. I would also like to see more on Non-Regents... more NPCs... more
adventures... more guts to the world. Enough on the nancy boys... I want to
know more about the real adventures and real people of the world of Cerilia.
This is one area in which most game worlds fall short.... not enough on the
normal Joe. We need to know more about the professions and make up of cities.
More on the people and what they understand to be the world... are they
completely ignorant... or is their some worldliness about them (after all in
many areas the men practacaly all serve in the armies at one time or another
so the peasents could be a little worldly.

That looks like a good wish list... and as me da always says... put your
wishes in one hand, relieve yourself (or a worse expletive) in the other and
see which one fills up first

- -Julian

[DKEvermore@aol.co]

Everyone here has stated already what I feel and would like for Birthright, so
I won't rehash it. But I can add a few tidbits, and perhaps add my opinion to
the public "wants".


In a message dated 1/8/99 1:40:38 AM Central Standard Time, JulesMrshn@aol.com
writes:

> If I had my suppliment/BR wish list:
>
> 1. Shadow world Suppliment (Including Twar Annwen since they are there)

And I believe that Tuar Annwn is very closely tied. We all know the story (if
you have TotHW). Additionally, the very name "Annwn" (this is even the
correct spelling in Welsh!) is an old British/Welsh term for a place in the
Otherworld. It is the land of the dead.

So we now have evidence of a full elven nation existing in a domain of the
Shadow World! If you can't wait for supplements, this is something for you to
chew on in the meantime!

> 2. Realms of Cerlia (as suggested by olesens@bellatlantic.net)
> But I am thinking Boxed set ...would include:
> -All Regents of Cerlia... including heirs,stats and stuff from player's
> secrets
> -All Realms detailed... including treasuries (guilds,temples, wiz's
included)
>
> -Maps with Roads, Ley lines, Castles etc....
> -A players primer with short description of the Realms with stuff they
would
> know (akin to a more detailed version of AoC)

I agree, but I would be perfectly happy with it all bound in a single hard or
soft bound book. One central resource makes looking stuff up during a frantic
session (as often happens in my game) would save a lot of time! Even though I
have already purchased every supplement, I would shell out up to $40 to get
this same material in one single book.

> 3. New Rules
> -New Battlesystem (I like the freedom of table-top wargaming.... perhaps
> explore that or maybe something akin to the old civilwar [american
civilwar
> for the internationals] boardgames)
> -More details on "fuzzy rules" like trade routes
> -New Rules for Mustering Troops
> -New Trade system (sorry don't like the current one)

Trade stuff is okay by me.

The Battle stuff: I have a suggestion. Make the rules scalable. You had a
good start, I think, with the skirmishing rules. Just expand this, giving
some brief rules on movement, clarification of unit sizes, and terrain mods
and I believe you can have a good set of rules for AD&D that occupies only 3-4
pages in print. I believe this is possible, since I have already created this
for my own game (which is not AD&D anymore--sorry).

> 4. Areas of the World Suppliment
> Details on other places in Cerilia like the Dragon iles and the other
> continents with troops and trade info
> 5. Adventures adventures Adventuers (best stated by Tim Nutting in his
post)

Adventure hooks are fine with me, too. I'm a home-brewer of adventures.

> 6. A Bigger selection of normal spells form Priests and Magicians, plus
> Cerilian kits for non-regents... (Regents get enough).
> 7. I would also like to see more on Non-Regents... more NPCs... more
> adventures... more guts to the world. Enough on the nancy boys... I want
to
> know more about the real adventures and real people of the world of
Cerilia.
> This is one area in which most game worlds fall short.... not enough on the
> normal Joe. We need to know more about the professions and make up of
> cities.
> More on the people and what they understand to be the world... are they
> completely ignorant... or is their some worldliness about them (after all
in
> many areas the men practacaly all serve in the armies at one time or
another
> so the peasents could be a little worldly.
>
> That looks like a good wish list... and as me da always says... put your
> wishes in one hand, relieve yourself (or a worse expletive) in the other
and
> see which one fills up first
>
> -Julian
>
I agree--good wish list!

Dustin Evermore

[JulesMrshn@aol.co]

In a message dated 1/8/99 8:57:21 AM Central Standard Time, DKEvermore@aol.com
writes:

>

Well, what I would like to see is perhaps rules for in cerilia trade like the
rules for Exploratory Trade. I don't like this "have to establih route" thing
to do trade. A few ships loaded with wood to Khinasi Plains area, or iron to
Vosgarrd would make a good profit, but would not have to be done each time.
There are other things, but that gives you the general idea... I would like
more involved trade rules.
((A really off the wall idea... make trade holdings... and leave guild
holdings to guilds ..miners guild...shipwrights guilds...Thieves guilds.
Trade holdings are for buying and selling, guild holdings are for the working
of jobs and establishment of professions. Imagine controlling the Shipwrights
guild and not build ships for landed regents...and he can't destroy you
because you control the only shipwright guild in the region))

[Kenneth Gauck]

On Friday, January 08, JulesMrshn@aol.com wrote:

>((A really off the wall idea... make trade holdings... and leave guild
>holdings to guilds ..miners guild...shipwrights guilds...Thieves guilds.
>Trade holdings are for buying and selling, guild holdings are for the
working
>of jobs and establishment of professions. Imagine controlling the
Shipwrights
>guild and not build ships for landed regents...and he can't destroy you
>because you control the only shipwright guild in the region))

That is more or less how I view the difference between guild holdings and
trade routes. A guild holding logs, a trade route imports timber. A guild
holding crafts shoes, a trade route imports shoes.

Kenneth Gauck
c558382@earthlink.net

[JulesMrshn@aol.co]

In a message dated 1/8/99 5:06:39 PM Central Standard Time,
c558382@earthlink.net writes:

>

Yes but I am talking personalized guilds. Not an ambigous oh yeah you got
people working for you guilds. If a guilder holds out its artisans then a
country would not have that. This would be more relavant to the if you
attack me, then my buds in these other kingdoms will attack you theory of
guild protection was imployed. Other countries would be mad if their ships
were no longer able to be build because a smaller nation said they wanted more
gold form the guild. It would make it so only Big nations like Avanil, Ghoere,
Boeruine, and others could tax without fear of others. I mean in this sense,
guilds of multidomain power should be able to protect themselves within the
rules. I think this kind of adverserial nature of the guilds where one is as
good as another fosters a weekness that should not be there. There are reasons
why Dhoensoe and Cariele are scared of the guilds. That is just not reflected
in the rules.

[Tim Nutting]

I kind of like the idea, but on a small scale. If ruling was limited to the
provincial level that would be pretty cool. However, when you rule a
monstrous trade empire spanning dozens of provinces, well, imagine the
bookeeping. I've played other empire games (Imperial Starfire from Task
Force Games comes to mind) with so many rules that you choke on them and
wonder why in the hell you're playing the game.

Can you imagine having to track the stonemason's guild, the artisan's guild,
carpenter's guild, wheelwright's guild, shipwright's guild, ferrier's guild,
thieve's "guild", and the teamster's union in one province, let alone ten?
What about the GM who has to look at the 12 surrounding realms? Further if
you get that detailed, by default you must do so as well with the Law and
Temple holdings. The exact number of shrines and to what derivation of the
god devoted to (and what local color thinks of him or her), and then the
various garrisons of City Watch and how much of them you control in a given
city... the amount of detail is staggering, and unplayable.




You are right in that the current system is a bit clunky. However, instead
of hammering the guys that built it, I'd rather congratulate them because
they made a workable system out of something that has taken lesser designers
200+ pages (again, Imperial Starfire, with 2 "sky marshal" 96 page rules
sups, 4 world expansion/rules sups, 3 main game boxes with rules sups...)

As far a guilds go, I think honestly they do have enough power and there is
a reason to be afraid of them. It's called contest and espionage. With
their broad expansion into other realms and the dominance of trade and the
vast amount of regency they hold, they can take direct action against
someone with frightening ease. I had a guilder in an 8 player game that
established massive routes and undercut his fellow player competition by
giving each one of those guys all the gold but 1 gb. He got all the
regency. At the end of the 1st year he had upped his score twice with
regency and used twice to three times the amount as everyone else. He
claimed his maximum allotment EVERY DOMAIN TURN. He bid against everyone
that chose to ignore him or cut off his trade routes. They were hurting
bad. When you've got 15 RP to spare and your neighbor has saved and has a
good 45, you ARE toast.

Later folks!
Tim Nutting
zero@wiredweb.com

[JulesMrshn@aol.co]

In a message dated 1/10/99 4:27:32 AM Central Standard Time, zero@wiredweb.com
writes:

[JulesMrshn@aol.co]

In a message dated 1/11/99 1:56:38 AM Central Standard Time, zero@wiredweb.com
writes:

>

Except if they storm them. Which is mentioned every now and then, but I never
really see some concrete rules on that. Maybe they are the same as castles...